Xenophase :: View topic » Guide: Weapon Damage Card Modifiers

Level 35 Joined: 09 Mar 2004 Posts: 1,248 Rating: 136

happyfacehead101 wrote:

@drakkhul: i used big letters to make the lines stand out. sorry for solvin the problem that you couldn't. true, i don't have access to the scripts, but unless the scripts are different, boned wouldnt do more than a hydra. please stop constantly flaming me wherever i post (most of the time, im right, and you flame me because you think im wrong.)

ANYWAYS, ONTO THE REAL SUBJECT:

you forgot to put that zipper bear/andre/wolf cards are better until a certain damage is reached. (calcing now, will edit in a sec)...unless this is a pure % card modifier forum, which is not specified

No I flame you because half the time you post you're not using your brain. It looks like you're finally developing one.

When you say you make the lines stand out, you're saying that you want everyone to know that abcboywonders is wrong, and that you're right. Only jerks like you would post like this.

And cards like Zipper Bear and Andre don't need to be put into this guide. If you have a brain and can read, then you'll be able to figure out that an Andre card adds 20 more damage to your base damage.

Staff Team

Keep the discussion civil, no need to start acting stupid over small details.

Banned Joined: 08 Dec 2007 Posts: 449/18 Rating: 1

drakkhul wrote:

happyfacehead101 wrote:

@drakkhul: i used big letters to make the lines stand out. sorry for solvin the problem that you couldn't. true, i don't have access to the scripts, but unless the scripts are different, boned wouldnt do more than a hydra. please stop constantly flaming me wherever i post (most of the time, im right, and you flame me because you think im wrong.)

ANYWAYS, ONTO THE REAL SUBJECT:

you forgot to put that zipper bear/andre/wolf cards are better until a certain damage is reached. (calcing now, will edit in a sec)...unless this is a pure % card modifier forum, which is not specified

No I flame you because half the time you post you're not using your brain. It looks like you're finally developing one.

When you say you make the lines stand out, you're saying that you want everyone to know that abcboywonders is wrong, and that you're right. Only jerks like you would post like this.

And cards like Zipper Bear and Andre don't need to be put into this guide. If you have a brain and can read, then you'll be able to figure out that an Andre card adds 20 more damage to your base damage.

I post in big letters, because i typed a lot of crap in that last post (the item descriptions), and il admit that. Used big letters to help that line stand out.

and considering that a lot of people that don't have a ton of money for some cards/weapons (ie: double bloody double boned weapons), or can't afford to make specialized weapons for where they train, andre/wolf cards are a cheap alternative. Also, a combination of modifiers/damage modifiers may end up with the end result, depending on the attack of the weapon, and the amounts of str/dex of the user. finally, there is a damage where below that damage, damage modifier cards have a greater effect, and above that damage, % modifiers have a greater value, or a combination of the 2 may have the best results.
for example: a hunter with 90 dex (in total), will do more damage with a +8 double zipper bear Gakkung than with a +10 double bloody double boned comp (to a vanberk). Although this is a pretty bad representation (considering most hunters have over 90 dex (not mine though Cool

), it still shows that double double is not always the best damage modifier.

lastly, making a super specialized weapon (ie: double clamorous double windy comp for hillwind), will make that bow only usable in one place (usually, unless it is a quad element/race weapon, making it more universal)

@drakkhul: I'm the one without a brain? i started ragnarok in december, you started four years ago. yet, you still cant figure out stuff that i can, and flame me about "not having a brain". another example http://forums.xenophase.net/swordie-question-t87764.html. WHAT'S THIS? flaming me when i'm right again? just dont flame me, i wont flame you. this guide is turning into a flame war.

finally @abcboywonders: sorry again if you thought i was flamin you, i can see why you would think that. my bad.

Posted: 28 Sep 2008 00:53

drakkhul wrote:

And cards like Zipper Bear and Andre don't need to be put into this guide. If you have a brain and can read, then you'll be able to figure out that an Andre card adds 20 more damage to your base damage.

Perhaps they are not required, but on a related note it may be of interest to determine at what point the specialized damage-carded weapons would out-perform weapons with high attack values. Because I'm pretty sure that's the end result people want: the combination that would give them the highest possible damage output.

To take the example of bows, a comp bow has an attack power of only 29. Sure you can specialize with cards it to get almost double attack power... but even a simple a Hunter Bow (attack power of 125) will still significantly outperform that at lower dex values.

Then complicate things with stuff like Burning Bows which only have 100 attack power, but add 25% damage with Fire arrows -- which is quite significant, especially if the enemy is weak to fire. It's slotted too -- so with all those modifications that are already going on, would a plus-percent damage card work better or a plus-attack power card? And at what dex values?

And moving off of archer-class characters... what about assassins? With up to 8 card slots and a much larger range of weapontry available (as well as the differences between the way mainhand and offhand cards affect damage on the mainhand/offhand hit), the effect of Double Attack, weapon elemental attributes, other card combo effect... the calculations to figure out what would be ideal on any particular monster gets horrendously complex.

Though there are definitely general patterns that hold true... finding an ideal weapon for a specific character and build actually takes a whole lot of work to figure out. Which, I suppose, is what those handy stat calculators like the one linked to on the first post are for (though because of all the things they try to take into consideration, they can be a little buggy and... I tend not to use them).

Level 36 Joined: 17 May 2004 Posts: 1,354 Rating: 23

not forget that theres a trade off to making super specialized bows.

Posted: 28 Sep 2008 01:19

Special type of card modifiers

Turtle general card +20% damage

orc lady +30% dmg to orcs except hero/lord
goblin leader +30% dmg to goblins
lava golem +30% dmg to golem type

abysmal knight +25% dmg to boss/bosstype monsters

and you didnt mention crit at all
paper card +20% crit dmg
mobster +15% crit dmg, 4 crit when thief class

assaulter +10% crit dmg, +7 crit rate to demihuman
dullahan, same w above except its +7 cr to dragon
pretty sure there are few more, just i dont remember --;

Posted: 28 Sep 2008 01:47

@tcjinl: The list of specialized crit cards is long... I believe there is one for every race.

Magneus makes a good point that there aren't fixed combinations that are better than other all the time. I'll take the example of a clown, where a triple bloody boned violin is only better up to 140-150 dex. After that, the double-double option is more viable. However, since this guide, I assume, was made to guide newer players, it is true that the triple-single combinationb is usually a good one. Besides, once you get to the point where a better combination can be made, chances are you have the money to replace your weapon. Thanks drak for the useful guide Very Happy

Posted: 28 Sep 2008 03:17

Moved to the guide section. Keep up the good work with this guide and keep the drama out!

Banned Joined: 25 Jan 2005 Posts: 641/32 Rating: -53

a very nice guide by drakkhul, i must commend you Cool

so i finally understand why people add skel workers.

can someone please explain why the amount of strength affects whether triple single or double double does more damage? because according to the guide one's stats shouldn't matter. only the combination of cards matter.

Level 8 Joined: 19 Sep 2004 Posts: 66 Rating: 0

@dada1713: for every 10 strength added on to your stats (10, 20, 30...etc) you get a bonus added on to the atk called a "breakpoint," the higher the strenght, the higher the breakpoint so the damage modifiers differentiate everytime, the calculation i'm guessing will probably be like weapon atk[/b} + [b]str + str breakpoint + card modifiers + weapon upgrade

say your holding a +1 blade (60 atk + 4) with 4 hydra cards (20% to demi-human), you have 10 str and each breakpoint is an additional 10% bonus, the damage will be calculated as :

60 atk + 10 str = 70 + breakpoint = 77 + 80%= 138.6 +4 =142.6

now say your holding a +0 main gauche (45atk +4) with 4 hydra cards and 20 str

45 atk + 20 str = 65 atk + breakpoint = 71.1 atk + another breakpoint = 78.2 atk + 80% = 140.76 + 4 = 144.76

if i am wrong someone please tell me it is 6am in the morning and i just got home an hour ago, i am somewat fatigued but i can't fall asleep so i decided to answer his question, i probbaly did a poor job researching the damage calculation too since i just did a quick glance at ratemyserver.com's database

Posted: 28 Sep 2008 07:39

Theres something about Double Daggers that i have never understand.

Why the hell do people make a double bloody boned Gladius and a double bloody double boned Main Mauche....... When they could simply make a triple boned Gladius and a quad bloody Main Gauche.

They do the same freaking damage exept the trip boned and quad bloody is much more versatile then double double. Yet ppl still make double double....why?

Posted: 28 Sep 2008 08:59

Vagabond wrote:

Theres something about Double Daggers that i have never understand.

Why the hell do people make a double bloody boned Gladius and a double bloody double boned Main Mauche....... When they could simply make a triple boned Gladius and a quad bloody Main Gauche.

They do the same freaking damage exept the trip boned and quad bloody is much more versatile then double double. Yet ppl still make double double....why?

cause having four race cards (hydra cards) only and each other up as in the formula drakkhul posted up

having double bloody boned in the other hand is two race cards and 2 size cards which the 2 race abd 2 size multiply each other, therefore having the more equally devided race, property/elemental, size and special card damage percentage cards ie. lava golem, goblin leader, ect. inconclusion, leading to the fact of which is more unediquiet yet civilized choice to assume

btw to tcjinl: forgot soldier skeleton and Goblin Steamrider Card

Posted: 28 Sep 2008 09:22

Vagabond wrote:

Theres something about Double Daggers that i have never understand.

Why the hell do people make a double bloody boned Gladius and a double bloody double boned Main Mauche....... When they could simply make a triple boned Gladius and a quad bloody Main Gauche.

They do the same freaking damage exept the trip boned and quad bloody is much more versatile then double double. Yet ppl still make double double....why?

I think this one I can answer. The short of it is that it *doesn't* do the same damage when you distribute the cards like that. This is because the mainhand and offhand hits are treated differently. With respect to cards, the damage modifcation cards on the offhand weapon affect the mainhand hit damage. However, any cards on the mainhand weapon DO NOT affect the offhand hit damage.

So although the mainhand damage should be the same regardless of the distribution of cards between the two hands, the offhand damage would be higher if the distribution of cards on the offhand weapon itself were optimized. The difference is fairly minimal (since the offhand weapon usually has a much lower attack power, will not double-attack, and has a maximum effectiveness of 80% even with full lefthand mastery) -- but there are still those willing to go to great lengths to add even a bit more damage to their attacks.

Note: Yes, I know that the Doddler's calculator spits out the same result regardless of how you distribute the cards between the hands. However, unless something has changed about this mechanic in the year or so since I last tested it on this server, I'd be tempted to say that the calculation on the simulator is incorrect.

Posted: 28 Sep 2008 11:00

Like others have mentioned, this guide doesn't mention these percentages change at corresponding base ATK.
IE: At anything <140 base dex it would be more beneficial to use a 3s cross bow or 2s arbalest
and at 140 base dex you'd start using 4s comp bows.

It's misleading to say that 3x1x always has the highest damage.

In addition, the size modifiers must be taken into account. Daggers do less to medium and large, etc.

Posted: 28 Sep 2008 11:56

Triple-Race Single-Sized combos are only viable when your damaging stat is 160 or above, or the skill in question ignores attack power when calculating final damage.