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Zenith
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PostPosted: 03 Feb 2006 12:47 AM Reply with quoteBack to top

mmm yeah if you're not used to a rifle in real life goin full auto it's pretty beserk. Even if its standard issue stuff from the RCMP or any law enforcement unit.

If you get the chance to see military armanaments its quite an experience.

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Korou
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PostPosted: 03 Feb 2006 08:15 AM Reply with quoteBack to top

dawn of a new race of guns...
Heckler and Kohc MP7!!!

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Caliber: 4.6mm proprietary (4.6x30mm)
Weight: 1.5 kg empty
Lenght (stock closed/open): 340 / 540 mm
Barrel lenght: 180 mm
Rate of fire: 950 rounds per minute
Magazine capacity: 20 or 40 rounds
Effective range: 200 meters


i saw this in the news a few year back, but i can't find the test video of it. It looks crazy, and the specs of this gun isn't that bad either.

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ISelfDestruct3 wrote:
people need to die. that's why disease, and viruses were made. im not saying god made them, or anything at all. (though my belief is that god made them). cause look at us, we are over populating the earth. PEOPLE NEED TO DIE!!
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AgentSmith
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PostPosted: 03 Feb 2006 11:06 PM Reply with quoteBack to top

I've seen the MP7 video and personally, its not that impressive. There was quite a bit of recoil for such a small cartridge and the magazine only holds 20? bullets which was expended in a few seconds. P90 all the way !

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MrFuta
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PostPosted: 04 Feb 2006 12:44 AM Reply with quoteBack to top

Heres to Tokyo Marui version of the MP7..

http://www.tokyo-marui.co.jp/MP7A1/index.html

looks nicer with the rail attachments but still looks pretty whimpy.. I'd rather go with P90 like Koopa

@Zeni: btw I actually got a G36C now.. airsoft version of course.. im looking for a tac vest that will fit the mags but im having trouble >.> Anywho.. we can go airsofting soemtime ^^ im thinking spring haha
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Korou
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PostPosted: 04 Feb 2006 09:16 AM Reply with quoteBack to top

AgentSmith wrote:
I've seen the MP7 video and personally, its not that impressive. There was quite a bit of recoil for such a small cartridge and the magazine only holds 20? bullets which was expended in a few seconds. P90 all the way !

Lol it holds 20 or 40. What good is 50 bullets in the p90 if over half of them miss? High RoF=bad aim. And the mp7 is for those soldiers who arn't issued an assault rifle, but need something better than a pistol. And its just an oversized pistol. In a few years, we'll see who NATO chooses, MP7 or P90. I like both, but think the mp7 looks a bit cooler xD

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people need to die. that's why disease, and viruses were made. im not saying god made them, or anything at all. (though my belief is that god made them). cause look at us, we are over populating the earth. PEOPLE NEED TO DIE!!
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AgentSmith
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PostPosted: 04 Feb 2006 11:53 AM Reply with quoteBack to top

P90 has 2/3 recoil of the 9mm round. It should easily be controllable in full auto fire and even if the shooter is not experienced, you have 50 rounds to put into the target. The MP7 in the video looked like a .45 round and even in 2 round burst mode the muzzle was climbing quite a bit. I'll find the links for both the P90 and MP7 vids soon.

MP7 Test Fire: http://www.defensereview.com/video/file2.mpg

P90 Promo Vid: Download this to comp, its a 4 min + video Very Happy
http://defensereview.com/1_31_2004/P90.mov

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Korou
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PostPosted: 09 Feb 2006 02:06 PM Reply with quoteBack to top

hmm what were the first few firearms? i need to write up a "technology report" on an item, so i chose guns xD. i didn't want to make up another thread because this one has already been made. Thanks in advance.

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ISelfDestruct3 wrote:
people need to die. that's why disease, and viruses were made. im not saying god made them, or anything at all. (though my belief is that god made them). cause look at us, we are over populating the earth. PEOPLE NEED TO DIE!!
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hao9031989417
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PostPosted: 09 Feb 2006 07:55 PM Reply with quoteBack to top

Korou wrote:
AgentSmith wrote:
I've seen the MP7 video and personally, its not that impressive. There was quite a bit of recoil for such a small cartridge and the magazine only holds 20? bullets which was expended in a few seconds. P90 all the way !

Lol it holds 20 or 40. What good is 50 bullets in the p90 if over half of them miss? High RoF=bad aim. And the mp7 is for those soldiers who arn't issued an assault rifle, but need something better than a pistol. And its just an oversized pistol. In a few years, we'll see who NATO chooses, MP7 or P90. I like both, but think the mp7 looks a bit cooler xD


Vulcan Gatling guns fire 6000 rounds per minute, can you say that they are inaccurate?

Submachine guns will not be used in full scale wars. (Did you ever see an average GI carrying a MP5?) The most they can do is to be used in urban SWAT Teams. (Mind you, I'd rather have a shotgun when clearing out a building.) They lack the punch in assault rifles and are ineffective in long ranges.

How do you expect soldiers to go into battle without even an assault rifle? Its the most basic piece of equipment. I'm sure soldiers would rather just carry a normal semi-automatic pistol for secondary armament, besides, I'm pretty sure buying AK-47s cost less than buying MP7s, therefore it is not logical for armies to equip soldiers with guns that 1) don't pack the necessary punch 2) has less than half the effective range of M-16.

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Zenith
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PostPosted: 10 Feb 2006 12:37 AM Reply with quoteBack to top

hao9031989417 wrote:
Korou wrote:
AgentSmith wrote:
I've seen the MP7 video and personally, its not that impressive. There was quite a bit of recoil for such a small cartridge and the magazine only holds 20? bullets which was expended in a few seconds. P90 all the way !

Lol it holds 20 or 40. What good is 50 bullets in the p90 if over half of them miss? High RoF=bad aim. And the mp7 is for those soldiers who arn't issued an assault rifle, but need something better than a pistol. And its just an oversized pistol. In a few years, we'll see who NATO chooses, MP7 or P90. I like both, but think the mp7 looks a bit cooler xD


Vulcan Gatling guns fire 6000 rounds per minute, can you say that they are inaccurate?

Submachine guns will not be used in full scale wars. (Did you ever see an average GI carrying a MP5?) The most they can do is to be used in urban SWAT Teams. (Mind you, I'd rather have a shotgun when clearing out a building.) They lack the punch in assault rifles and are ineffective in long ranges.

How do you expect soldiers to go into battle without even an assault rifle? Its the most basic piece of equipment. I'm sure soldiers would rather just carry a normal semi-automatic pistol for secondary armament, besides, I'm pretty sure buying AK-47s cost less than buying MP7s, therefore it is not logical for armies to equip soldiers with guns that 1) don't pack the necessary punch 2) has less than half the effective range of M-16.


Yeah. Hao's got it right. Soldiers will never use a sub machine gun for field use. Its got no range and that becomes a severe tactical disadvantage when most of the combat happens at moderate to long range.

I dont know where you're getting your information from Korou but a P90 is not inaccurate. It is one of the most well designed SMG's out there. It has a high rate of fire, it has unbelieveable accuracy for something its size, calibre and rate of fire and it has the capability of using armor piercing rounds. 50 rounds per magazine. Can be fitted with a scope and laser sight. Its weight should be around 2.2kg if Im not mistaken. Its heavier than most SMGs but not as heavy as a rifle. This combined with its longer frame makes it a relatively stable weapon.

The MP7, to me, looks like a new weapon that hasn't been tested on the field yet. By the looks of it I dont think it'll make it to the field either. Its too compact which means it doesn't pack enough power in its punch, the clip is standard to the MP5 if not smaller which means unless its lighter and stronger than the MP5 it won't be taking its job. Its got a nice rate of fire so as far as Im concerned, I think it has a chance of replacing the uzi as a close range alternative to a pistol.

fyi : I used to play Airsoft on a very regular basis and there is a distinct difference between real weapons and airsoft replicas. They're quite similar but they're not the same. So if some of my numbers or info is wrong, I apologize in advance.

@Mr.Futa : Yeah definately Phil haha. Round up some people, we'll head down to tawassen or out to Langley to get a game or two in. It'll be awesome.

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Kruger
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PostPosted: 10 Feb 2006 09:51 AM Reply with quoteBack to top

well the way I see it small arms like the mp7 could be and effective side arm for suport soldiers, you know the ones carrying anti tank weapons and explosives?
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sixsixone
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PostPosted: 10 Feb 2006 11:57 AM Reply with quoteBack to top

Duke Nuke'em.
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HelloMrBean
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PostPosted: 10 Feb 2006 12:50 PM Reply with quoteBack to top

I think I read it somewhere that you can you can mess up a p90's mag pretty easily if you drop it.? (bullets fall out of order and doesn't feed properly) and it's a pain to fix it.

case-less ammo's probably better suited for large mag in small arms.

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as42-e.htm
G11, a very interesting design that uses case-less ammo.
too bad it's program's cancelled.
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Zenith
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PostPosted: 10 Feb 2006 03:22 PM Reply with quoteBack to top

the early prototype p90s had that problem. Its been fixed after it came into production for a few years. It used to have an inherant problem where if you dropped it the bullet casings would fall out of alignment and cause a jam in the loading mechanism of the gun. The rounds wouldn't properly fall into the breech and the detonation of the bullet would either not happen or fragment the barrel of the weapon upon firing. But all weapons with a long magazine have this problem. Its not only isolated to the p90. What they've done is fitted the rounds with a secondary case so there is no "rattlespace" between the rounds. The magazines also have a better spring mechanism now that lowers the chances of a misalignment.

Fixing it if there's a jam takes some time but isn't impossible for a soldier on the field. Disengaging the clip giving it a good hard tap at the head of the magazine and reinserting will fix it most of the time.

The chances of messing up your magazine isn't any higher than any other gun so its a negligible change of risk. Then again the mags are usually in a pouch, pocket or strapped to the combatant somehow. I wouldn't presume they'd be dropping them often.

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Korou
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PostPosted: 10 Feb 2006 04:42 PM Reply with quoteBack to top

Zenith wrote:
the early prototype p90s had that problem. Its been fixed after it came into production for a few years. It used to have an inherant problem where if you dropped it the bullet casings would fall out of alignment and cause a jam in the loading mechanism of the gun. The rounds wouldn't properly fall into the breech and the detonation of the bullet would either not happen or fragment the barrel of the weapon upon firing. But all weapons with a long magazine have this problem. Its not only isolated to the p90. What they've done is fitted the rounds with a secondary case so there is no "rattlespace" between the rounds. The magazines also have a better spring mechanism now that lowers the chances of a misalignment.

Fixing it if there's a jam takes some time but isn't impossible for a soldier on the field. Disengaging the clip giving it a good hard tap at the head of the magazine and reinserting will fix it most of the time.

The chances of messing up your magazine isn't any higher than any other gun so its a negligible change of risk. Then again the mags are usually in a pouch, pocket or strapped to the combatant somehow. I wouldn't presume they'd be dropping them often.


lol in that time, the opposing force could be rushing while you're taping your p90. Then BOOM you're dead. Time is a very critical thing, and theres no room for screw ups in war, or you'll lose lives, maybe your own or your friends. soo... GO MP7!

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ISelfDestruct3 wrote:
people need to die. that's why disease, and viruses were made. im not saying god made them, or anything at all. (though my belief is that god made them). cause look at us, we are over populating the earth. PEOPLE NEED TO DIE!!
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hao9031989417
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PostPosted: 10 Feb 2006 08:45 PM Reply with quoteBack to top

Korou wrote:
Zenith wrote:
the early prototype p90s had that problem. Its been fixed after it came into production for a few years. It used to have an inherant problem where if you dropped it the bullet casings would fall out of alignment and cause a jam in the loading mechanism of the gun. The rounds wouldn't properly fall into the breech and the detonation of the bullet would either not happen or fragment the barrel of the weapon upon firing. But all weapons with a long magazine have this problem. Its not only isolated to the p90. What they've done is fitted the rounds with a secondary case so there is no "rattlespace" between the rounds. The magazines also have a better spring mechanism now that lowers the chances of a misalignment.

Fixing it if there's a jam takes some time but isn't impossible for a soldier on the field. Disengaging the clip giving it a good hard tap at the head of the magazine and reinserting will fix it most of the time.

The chances of messing up your magazine isn't any higher than any other gun so its a negligible change of risk. Then again the mags are usually in a pouch, pocket or strapped to the combatant somehow. I wouldn't presume they'd be dropping them often.


lol in that time, the opposing force could be rushing while you're taping your p90. Then BOOM you're dead. Time is a very critical thing, and theres no room for screw ups in war, or you'll lose lives, maybe your own or your friends. soo... GO MP7!


Rush? This isn't CS, this is real life. The person rushing would probably get turned into meat jelly before he/she reaches you. Real battles are faught over a few hundred meters, try going across all that distance with over 50kg of gear. Besides, why would any soldier use a submachine gun while they could be using M-16/AK-47(74) assault rifles? In my opinion, a M-16 outperforms a MP7 other than the weight and slightly slower rate of fire.

M-16
Effective range 550 m
Rate of fire 750 to 900 round/min
Muzzle velocity 975 m/884 m per minute
Weight 2.9kg (Lightest version)

MP7
Effective range 200 m
Rate of fire 950 round/min
Muzzle Velocity 725 m/sec
Weight: 1.30~1.54 kg

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